Well well well

mikesim said:
Interestingly Edison pioneered the use of "waste" heat at his first cogeneration facility at the Pearl St. Station in NYC. His dynamos for generation of 100VDC were coal fired and provided lighting for about 1000 customers served by the station. Rather than allow the surplus heat go to waste, he created a steam heating district and used the surplus energy to provide steam heat to local businessesand residences. The same could be done with the waste heat from the data centers.

Mike
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I think so too. The 4,000 US data centers provide a ready market for the technology. There are 2,000 others overseas. Who ever comes up with the tech will be richer than old pharaoh.
 
suvcw04 said:
Does wind power work?
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Fluctuating, unsteady, unreliable feed -> struggling networks...

i.e. while there are strong winds in northern Germany, the turbine operators go "yay! Lets make some cash!"... without any other consideration...
the sudden amount of electricity can however not be consumed in the northern area, thus its diverted southbound into the (aged) grid, driving substations near "brownout" on regular bases...
and if the wind up there stops again, they have a hard time ramping up the conventional plants down south, to compensate and prevent a phase drop/shifting...

Far worse are the European nations in a power connection network across the entire continent... so above issues triple and quadruple...
(I guess similar conflicts between profiteering and aged grids exist within the US...)
 
ST1100Y said:
Fluctuating, unsteady, unreliable feed -> struggling networks...

i.e. while there are strong winds in northern Germany, the turbine operators go "yay! Lets make some cash!"... without any other consideration...
the sudden amount of electricity can however not be consumed in the northern area, thus its diverted southbound into the (aged) grid, driving substations near "brownout" on regular bases...
and if the wind up there stops again, they have a hard time ramping up the conventional plants down south, to compensate and prevent a phase drop/shifting...

Far worse are the European nations in a power connection network across the entire continent... so above issues triple and quadruple...
(I guess similar conflicts between profiteering and aged grids exist within the US...)
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Thanks! Very interesting. Love the pics of big bulldozers burying the huge broken blades.
Would still love the numbers on the construction and maintenance costs vs the power made.
If they are hard to find, you can bet your bippy they are not good. Like ethanol. How much rain forest in brazil was cut down to grow the sugar cain? How much fertilizer, herbicide and pesticide and fuel and electricity is used to produce a gallon of ethanol from half the US corn crop?
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Coyote Chris said:
Would still love the numbers on the construction and maintenance costs vs the power made.
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Right, building the access road, excavating the pit, hauling the dirt, mining iron, producing steel/rebar, hauling that around, cooking the cement, mining the gravel, mixing, transport and pouring hundreds of tons concrete...
Imagine how much diesel you've to burn to make the foundation for only one bloody turbine...

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Then fabbing the (steel) tower, the generator (build from rare ores -> more critical mining), holding around 800 gallons of (mineral!) gear-oil (annual loss ~80 gal), the transformer substation (more ores and oil), inverters, controls, and of course the masts plus the power lines connecting the shebang to the grid... trucks, massive cranes, more diesel power...

And then those blades, continuously weathering down, shedding GFK particles into the environment around them, contaminating soil and any produce in the vicinity for millennia...
Not to mention the environmental hazard from an oil-spill by a blown gearbox... :confused:
Max lifespan of an onshore turbine are about 25~30 years max... then it has to be blown up and disposed... much of it as hazardous waste...

Sure, individuals stuck in the belief that 'electricity comes out the wall-socket', rather choose to ignore the reality behind... :shrug2:
 
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It is funny that Hydro Electric Power is not considered green energy. With a reservoir, you can manage a steady flow of water. Gravity provides the energy.
 
All interesting posts above. And yet we continue to focus on generating more electricity and storing more electricity while reducing carbon footprint in doing so INSTEAD of reducing our consumption. Since electricity is an invisible and relatively inexpensive energy (well maybe except for lighting) we tend to dismiss our excessive consumption without realizing or caring.
 
ST1100Y said:
Right, building the access road, excavating the pit, hauling the dirt, mining iron, producing steel/rebar, hauling that around, cooking the cement, mining the gravel, mixing, transport and pouring hundreds of tons concrete...
Imagine how much diesel you've to burn to make the foundation for only one bloody turbine...

View attachment 23922

Then fabbing the (steel) tower, the generator (build from rare ores -> more critical mining), holding around 800 gallons of (mineral!) gear-oil (annual loss ~80 gal), the transformer substation (more ores and oil), inverters, controls, and of course the masts plus the power lines connecting the shebang to the grid... trucks, massive cranes, more diesel power...

And then those blades, continuously weathering down, shedding GFK particles into the environment around them, contaminating soil and any produce in the vicinity for millennia...
Not to mention the environmental hazard from an oil-spill by a blown gearbox... :confused:
Max lifespan of an onshore turbine are about 25~30 years max... then it has to be blown up and disposed... much of it as hazardous waste...

Sure, individuals stuck in the belief that 'electricity comes out the wall-socket', rather choose to ignore the reality behind... :shrug2:
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Thanks for a great analysis. Another factor is anyone borrowing money (yes, I know it doesn't matter if the money is borrowed or not) is constantly paying interest on investment.
 
Frosty said:
It is funny that Hydro Electric Power is not considered green energy. With a reservoir, you can manage a steady flow of water. Gravity provides the energy.
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He is saying in WA it's not
And the party in power that is forcing "clean" energy in part may sink this data center. Avista public utility is asking for a 25 percent rate increase and the AG's office is not happy.
 
ST1100Y said:
Data centers requiring only minimal amounts of electricity and almost no cooling already exist...




they're called libraries... 🤨
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HOWEVER, you need to be able to read and understand. If you say "library" to anyone under 30, they will roll their eyes and walk away. I have a 16 yo step-granddaughter who cannot tell time on an analog clock. If it's not on her iPhone or her connected wristwatch, she has no idea of the time. She does good to know night from day.
 
suvcw04 said:
HOWEVER, you need to be able to read and understand. If you say "library" to anyone under 30, they will roll their eyes and walk away. I have a 16 yo step-granddaughter who cannot tell time on an analog clock. If it's not on her iPhone or her connected wristwatch, she has no idea of the time. She does good to know night from day.
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Sadly, there are klds like this. They are passed on through the school system despite not knowing how to read and write (federal dollars encourage this) and many in ghettos dont have fathers or functioning families. They struggle to make change. This is not knew. I have a friend from college who ended up running the Boise High school English dept. She doesnt joke. She said when she retired, Bosie High had two high school diplomas. One if you showed up and one if you knew something. :confused:
 
ST1100Y said:
Data centers requiring only minimal amounts of electricity and almost no cooling already exist...




they're called libraries... 🤨
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Do I laugh or cry? Actually, data centers have nothing to do with data.
1. Bitcoins. The bitcoin ill eagle money frenzy requires huge amounts of computing power to make complex calculations.
2. AI. AI is many things which have nothing to do with data but rather complex modeling. Your pics storage in the cloud is a small part of it.
"Open the Pod bay doors, HAL"
"I am afraid I cant do that, HAL"
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ST1100Y said:
So why did they jump on AI but forgot to implement the 3 laws of robotic? 🤔
(I store most of my pics local, NAS and that... )
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I am not a cloud guy. My pics are very important to me. I store them by year,then subject or vacation. I do store some on line but I use hard drives, solid state drives, and store them in a lock box in a bank, at home in a safe, and at a friend's house. I dont need no stinking data center.
 
suvcw04 said:
HOWEVER, you need to be able to read and understand. If you say "library" to anyone under 30, they will roll their eyes and walk away. I have a 16 yo step-granddaughter who cannot tell time on an analog clock. If it's not on her iPhone or her connected wristwatch, she has no idea of the time. She does good to know night from day.
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I rebuilt the deck of my back up lawn tractor today after off roading and hitting a rock and loosing a blade. Cheep repair but time consuming. I wonder what percentage of kids can do this?
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Coyote Chris said:
I wonder what percentage of kids can do this?
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... err, how many would even want to... 🤔

any manual/blue collar activities are so much below their level...
But at the same time the hypocritical act of enabling the new modern slavery with all those underpaid (food) delivery services... 😒
make a grocery run and prepare your own food? Nah!

As said, we're not gonna make it...
 
ST1100Y said:
... err, how many would even want to... 🤔

any manual/blue collar activities are so much below their level...
But at the same time the hypocritical act of enabling the new modern slavery with all those underpaid (food) delivery services... 😒
make a grocery run and prepare your own food? Nah!

As said, we're not gonna make it...
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No one wants to make the big bucks being a welder, electrician or automotive electronics tech... The actors on "Friends" never got dirty or seems to do any work, right?
Our Panda express fast food restaurant has a big professional sign up. $40,000 a year to start. Top out at $80,000 as store manager.
Two buddies/partners could rake in $80k a year and have a life but people dont want to work. They want a job in political science.
 
Newton's Cafe in Waterloo (Best biscuits and gravy you ever had north of Georgia.) just closed "temporarily". Can't find help. The unemployment rate in a 2 mile radius would be 50%. Government raises them from cradle to the grave. Why work?
 
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