My Bike's Struggles with Acceleration and Higher Speeds
- Thread starter Phil Tarman
- Start date
Glad to hear that your problem is resolved. I wonder what the black gunk was? I also wonder if periodic applications of a fuel injector cleaner like Techron might have prevented the problem? Hmmmm….. I use Techron every so often, I may start using it more regularly based upon your info. Since Traveller is now at 104K miles, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
Mike
Mike
The Suzuki VStroms were notorious for clogged fuel filters. Those filters were very similar to the NT (from what I can see) but cost over $300. The first time it got a blockage, I bought a new filter. The second time I did the mod in this link and put an external $10 Nissan car filter in. You would need to cut an old NT filter in half to see where to drill the bypass hole. If the external filter gets blocked, you can get one at any auto parts store. Partially blocked filters require the fuel pump to draw more wattage and run hotter. Shortening the life of the pump.
OP
OP
Phil Tarman
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I'm glad you guys are finding some alternatives to replacing the pump/filter assembly. I guess if my new pump lasts 130K like the first one did, I'll be OK> 
The filter assembly appears to be able to be purchased separately from the fuel pump. It is piece 31 on the Fuel Tank part fiche.
| PUMP ASSY., FUEL (MSDS) for 2010 Honda NT700V | 16700-MEW-D41 | $312.24 |
| FILTER ASSY., FUEL for 2010 Honda NT700V | 16011-MEW-D40 | $163.28 |
OP
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Phil Tarman
Site Supporter
I guess I should have looked at the part fiche!
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- Jun 6, 2019
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Yeah I noticed that too, cheers for pointing it out, it's in my uk post so was hoping folks would get that info from there but you've saved some digging around!
So i was pretty keen to get the pump out and happy to play at dissassembling it.
You could even perhaps put a new filter with a Quantum fuel pump if you need to + are on a tight budget.
I had the filter + pump + other bits on order from Partzilla, but then cancelled it all, as I wanted to add stuff + have it all shipped together. Pleased that they gave me a full no quible refund, including the Paypal fee.
The link to the VStrom mod, very interesting + that filter looks similar... Perhaps not the same though.. Not sure I could go to the trouble of doing that mod, but if I order a new one again I'll think about it. There's mention of the black gunk in that filter too!
I put fuel system + injector cleaner stuff in many times during the bad running but with no change .... but the manual says not to as it may damage the cat!
So i was pretty keen to get the pump out and happy to play at dissassembling it.
You could even perhaps put a new filter with a Quantum fuel pump if you need to + are on a tight budget.
I had the filter + pump + other bits on order from Partzilla, but then cancelled it all, as I wanted to add stuff + have it all shipped together. Pleased that they gave me a full no quible refund, including the Paypal fee.
The link to the VStrom mod, very interesting + that filter looks similar... Perhaps not the same though.. Not sure I could go to the trouble of doing that mod, but if I order a new one again I'll think about it. There's mention of the black gunk in that filter too!
I put fuel system + injector cleaner stuff in many times during the bad running but with no change .... but the manual says not to as it may damage the cat!
The Vstrom filter mod takes about an hour to do. It requires a car filter of your choice, a few feet of high pressure FI hose and the clamps for that type of hose (not the regular hose clamps). You need to leave the old filter on as it houses the fuel pressure regulator. The hole that is drilled in the filter, allows fuel to flow through the filter to the regulator without the restriction of the filter. It is filtered between the tank fuel outlet and the throttle bodies. There is plenty of room for an auxiliary filter on the right side beside the battery box.
I buy Techron Fuel Injection Cleaner by the box at Costco and use it in my FI bikes and cars. It only cleans the fuel injector nozzles and restores a good spray pattern. I figure since it is a Chevron product, it is probably pretty safe for use.
I buy Techron Fuel Injection Cleaner by the box at Costco and use it in my FI bikes and cars. It only cleans the fuel injector nozzles and restores a good spray pattern. I figure since it is a Chevron product, it is probably pretty safe for use.
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- Jun 6, 2019
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Oh, I see better now, but still not fully got it...what I couldn't understand was that I thought the Honda filter was a first filter and the added other filter a secondary filter, and couldn't see how it stops the Honda filter clogging up, and I thought a mod would require a 2nd filter to come in line somehow b4 the Honda filter.
Does this mod make the Honda filter redundant?
I am with you on the 2 filter thing. You would think that filter that looks like a tea bag and is attached to the pick up, would filter out all the big crud. But is does not appear to be the case. The two filter blockages I had, occurred within 30 minutes of gassing up. The bike would not go over 60 mph. That tea bag filter was clean, but the final filter was blocked. I can't figure that one out.
Whenever I do the valves on a bike, I always do a flow test on the filter. Basically....you disconnect the fuel feed line, and run it into a graduated beaker. There is a minimum amount you should get when running the fuel pump for X number of seconds. It is a real PITA if they clog up during a long trip. The filter blockage often occurs over a long period and is gradual. So you don't really notice it happening until the engine starts running rough and no power.
Larry.
Whenever I do the valves on a bike, I always do a flow test on the filter. Basically....you disconnect the fuel feed line, and run it into a graduated beaker. There is a minimum amount you should get when running the fuel pump for X number of seconds. It is a real PITA if they clog up during a long trip. The filter blockage often occurs over a long period and is gradual. So you don't really notice it happening until the engine starts running rough and no power.
Larry.
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Hondafan, i'm not sure you are with me....! I perhaps wasn't clear enough though
You are referring to the little foot plate / base pre-filter, the white one which sits under the red gauze. That, when washed out, had no crud in it at all.
I presume the red gauze just stops large matter, leaves, that kind of thing, from being restrictive if they inadvertently get in your tank on a windy day at the gas station.
That base / pre filter then, just holds off fairly small stuff, it is like a very fine mesh / cloth.
But what I meant was...without counting this genuine footplate pre filter, is that I thought any mod would need to go before the Honda main filter, rather than after it, otherwise the Honda filter, the expensive one, still gets clogged. Or like the mod needs to go between the prefilter and main filter.
But it seems the mod, which places a filter outside the tank, after the Honda filter, somehow makes the Honda filter redundant...?
...so fuel won't clog it anyway, and it doesn't matter even if it does... Is that because the hole drilled diverts fuel from it, ( although fuel will still enter it), and regardless of whether or not it got washed out like I did with mine, or you leave it clogged, the main flow of fuel is now bypassing it anyway and getting filtered in the post tank filter mod?
Perhaps I skipped over reading the mod too quickly!
You are referring to the little foot plate / base pre-filter, the white one which sits under the red gauze. That, when washed out, had no crud in it at all.
I presume the red gauze just stops large matter, leaves, that kind of thing, from being restrictive if they inadvertently get in your tank on a windy day at the gas station.
That base / pre filter then, just holds off fairly small stuff, it is like a very fine mesh / cloth.
But what I meant was...without counting this genuine footplate pre filter, is that I thought any mod would need to go before the Honda main filter, rather than after it, otherwise the Honda filter, the expensive one, still gets clogged. Or like the mod needs to go between the prefilter and main filter.
But it seems the mod, which places a filter outside the tank, after the Honda filter, somehow makes the Honda filter redundant...?
...so fuel won't clog it anyway, and it doesn't matter even if it does... Is that because the hole drilled diverts fuel from it, ( although fuel will still enter it), and regardless of whether or not it got washed out like I did with mine, or you leave it clogged, the main flow of fuel is now bypassing it anyway and getting filtered in the post tank filter mod?
Perhaps I skipped over reading the mod too quickly!
The way I read the document the external filter mod shown in the Vstrom write up allows the unfiltered fuel to exit the fuel filter housing BEFORE the filter medium and therefore the fuel bypasses the very small and very expensive fuel filter.
Doing this mod will allow you to use a much larger and much cheaper external filter which can be easily changed during normal msintenance.
Seagrass
Doing this mod will allow you to use a much larger and much cheaper external filter which can be easily changed during normal msintenance.
Seagrass
Yes, the Honda filter is redundant as far as filtering goes. All the filtering is done by the external filter.Hondafan, i'm not sure you are with me....! I perhaps wasn't clear enough though
You are referring to the little foot plate / base pre-filter, the white one which sits under the red gauze. That, when washed out, had no crud in it at all.
I presume the red gauze just stops large matter, leaves, that kind of thing, from being restrictive if they inadvertently get in your tank on a windy day at the gas station.
That base / pre filter then, just holds off fairly small stuff, it is like a very fine mesh / cloth.
But what I meant was...without counting this genuine footplate pre filter, is that I thought any mod would need to go before the Honda main filter, rather than after it, otherwise the Honda filter, the expensive one, still gets clogged. Or like the mod needs to go between the prefilter and main filter.
But it seems the mod, which places a filter outside the tank, after the Honda filter, somehow makes the Honda filter redundant...?
...so fuel won't clog it anyway, and it doesn't matter even if it does... Is that because the hole drilled diverts fuel from it, ( although fuel will still enter it), and regardless of whether or not it got washed out like I did with mine, or you leave it clogged, the main flow of fuel is now bypassing it anyway and getting filtered in the post tank filter mod?
Perhaps I skipped over reading the mod too quickly!
FYI. I had a 2011 Honda CBR250. On that bike, the pump was in the tank but the filter was mounted outside on the bottom of the tank. And it only cost $30. Easy to change and cheap enough to carry a spare.
Doesn't sound like the fuel filter. I would try pinching off the vacuum line from the charcoal canister to the intake manifold and see if that helps. My other guess would be the TPS (throttle position sensor), either dirty, sticky, or faulty.
Good luck.
OP
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Phil Tarman
Site Supporter
Ain't no nasty moderators around here, 8-Ball. (Written by a moderator)
In November last year I did a six day, 1770km/1100mi trip and although everything started out well on the first day my 2006 NT700V developed hesitation and acceleration issues about five hours after I'd left home and by the fifth day my riding speed was often reduced to 40kph/25mph on roads with a speed limit of 110kph/70mph - not a pleasant experience at all!!
That said, the hesitation and acceleration issues were intermittent and because they didn't occur at all while I was riding on the third and fourth days I had absolutely no idea what was causing the problem.
On my way home on the fifth day I decided to keep the fuel level above 1/4 tank but just after passing through a town with more than half a tank of fuel the hesitation and acceleration issues started again and I only just made it to a petrol station in the town - fortunately it was mostly a downhill run and there wasn't much traffic!
I finally discovered the probable cause of the hesitation and acceleration issues while I was refuelling - the sun was shining into the tank and I could see it was full of rust!
Obviously at some time over the previous year or two when I did almost no riding because of COVID travel restrictions and border closures I had picked up a bad batch of fuel that had a lot of water in it (I don't use ethanol fuels and in more than 40 years of riding here in Australia I have never needed to use a fuel stabiliser product).
My travel for the rest of that day and the following day was very challenging because there were numerous times when the bike would suddenly, and without warning, behave as if it had a fuel starvation issue and my speed was reduced to 40kph/25mph on roads with a speed limit of 110kph/70mph but thankfully I made it home safely!
I drained and disassembled the tank a few days later and as can be seen from the following photos the fuel pump was also very badly affected by rust.
I did a lot of reading about how best to clean the rust out of the tank and using a vinegar solution was a certainly a good start - the only problem was that I left the fuel cap installed with the tank upside down for a week or so while I was waiting for the POR15 kit to arrive and the vinegar damaged the finish on the fuel cap and also dissolved/deformed a soft metal section on the underside of the cap.
So in addition to ordering a new fuel pump I also had to order a new fuel cap - fortunately I was able to recode the fuel cap lock cylinder to match my ignition key.
I finally picked up the new fuel pump yesterday - it took more than three months to arrive at the dealership from when I ordered it in November (and I've been away on holidays since it arrived) - so I'm hoping to get the tank all back together this weekend and get my bike running properly again!!
1. Inside fuel tank before any treatment (note drain hole circled in red)
2. Fuel pump
3. Inside fuel tank after vinegar and POR15 MetalPrep treatment (note drain hole circled in red)
4. Inside fuel tank after POR15 Fuel Tank Sealer treatment (note drain hole circled in red - it was blocked by the sealer and I had to scrape it off)
5. Fuel cap damaged by vinegar (including piece that deformed/dissolved)
6.New fuel cap (piece that deformed/dissolved outlined) and fuel pump
That said, the hesitation and acceleration issues were intermittent and because they didn't occur at all while I was riding on the third and fourth days I had absolutely no idea what was causing the problem.
On my way home on the fifth day I decided to keep the fuel level above 1/4 tank but just after passing through a town with more than half a tank of fuel the hesitation and acceleration issues started again and I only just made it to a petrol station in the town - fortunately it was mostly a downhill run and there wasn't much traffic!
I finally discovered the probable cause of the hesitation and acceleration issues while I was refuelling - the sun was shining into the tank and I could see it was full of rust!
Obviously at some time over the previous year or two when I did almost no riding because of COVID travel restrictions and border closures I had picked up a bad batch of fuel that had a lot of water in it (I don't use ethanol fuels and in more than 40 years of riding here in Australia I have never needed to use a fuel stabiliser product).
My travel for the rest of that day and the following day was very challenging because there were numerous times when the bike would suddenly, and without warning, behave as if it had a fuel starvation issue and my speed was reduced to 40kph/25mph on roads with a speed limit of 110kph/70mph but thankfully I made it home safely!
I drained and disassembled the tank a few days later and as can be seen from the following photos the fuel pump was also very badly affected by rust.
I did a lot of reading about how best to clean the rust out of the tank and using a vinegar solution was a certainly a good start - the only problem was that I left the fuel cap installed with the tank upside down for a week or so while I was waiting for the POR15 kit to arrive and the vinegar damaged the finish on the fuel cap and also dissolved/deformed a soft metal section on the underside of the cap.
So in addition to ordering a new fuel pump I also had to order a new fuel cap - fortunately I was able to recode the fuel cap lock cylinder to match my ignition key.
I finally picked up the new fuel pump yesterday - it took more than three months to arrive at the dealership from when I ordered it in November (and I've been away on holidays since it arrived) - so I'm hoping to get the tank all back together this weekend and get my bike running properly again!!
1. Inside fuel tank before any treatment (note drain hole circled in red)
2. Fuel pump
3. Inside fuel tank after vinegar and POR15 MetalPrep treatment (note drain hole circled in red)
4. Inside fuel tank after POR15 Fuel Tank Sealer treatment (note drain hole circled in red - it was blocked by the sealer and I had to scrape it off)
5. Fuel cap damaged by vinegar (including piece that deformed/dissolved)
6.New fuel cap (piece that deformed/dissolved outlined) and fuel pump
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