Spearfish Yes – VFR maybe not

Frosty

Frosty

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Joined
May 25, 2011
Messages
511
Location
Spokane, WA
Bike
2020 Triumph 900GT
I bought a 5th gen 1998 VFR800 FI as a project bike to work on in the garage. Fortunately, the bike is in excellent condition, but 22 years old. My plan was to go thru the bike completely, make sure the systems are good, rubber parts/hoses replaced, ergonomics to suit me, and cross country capability. Also I planned to ride it to Spearfish this year.

I find that I enjoy working on it in the garage, but I am in no hurry to complete the project. I have the 2010 NT700 and BMW F800GT, which are both ready to go. I have decided to enjoy working on the VFR and not make it a chore to complete, but if I get it done …

Why I bought a 1998 VFR800FI .... hmmmm V-4 with fuel injection
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Where I am at currently ... How many days to Spearfish?
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Checked the rear bank valves. Seven right in the center, one slightly off, but well within tolerances. Need to check the front cylinders next ...
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... but first a 200 mile picnic ride to Sun Lakes Dry Falls SP with Coyote Chris. I still feel a little guilty, but it won't stop me from going camping.
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Fuel Injectors
If you run your vehicle regularly and use good fuel, you should never have to think about your fuel injectors. I decided to have the VFR fuel injectors serviced. I had to remove the throttle body to get to the thermostat and this bike sat without running for years at a time.

Mr. Injector (Bill Johnson) cleaned, inspected, installed new filters / gaskets, and retested the injectors. He said that the injectors were in good shape and the increased performance was probably the result of new internal filters.

The online Honda discounted price for a fuel injector is $295.00. The discounted price for the three seals/gaskets is $20.30.
Bill charges $17.50 per injector which includes all of the parts plus a new internal filter.

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Reconditioned Injectors with old returned parts.



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Fuel injectors have always fascinated me. When you consider the environment they operate in, the duty cycle they are required to perform, and the billions (trillions?) of cycles before failure. Their only source of lubrication is the gasoline which has very low lubricity, yet the failure rate is miniscule compared to other automotive components.

Mike
 
Pretty amazing that the shop also provides a scorecard on the injectors, before and after!
 
mikesim said:
Fuel injectors have always fascinated me. When you consider the environment they operate in, the duty cycle they are required to perform, and the billions (trillions?) of cycles before failure. Their only source of lubrication is the gasoline which has very low lubricity, yet the failure rate is miniscule compared to other automotive components.

Mike
Click to expand...
Exactly right Mike. They are much more reliable that carbies. With a little care they will last the life of the engine.

Macka
 
Macka said:
As a 66 YO mechanic all I can say is that there are too many bits in there!

Macka
Click to expand...

mikesim said:
Job security, Macka. Job security.

:LOL:

Mike
Click to expand...

Basing job security solely off gear driven cam VFR engines would be severely ill advised. One of Honda's most reliable engines configurations.

This is an excerpt from Bike Magazine May 2005, an interview with a UK Motorcycle courrier.

Stan ran three 750 VFRs.... He talks about the third affectionately, like a man remembering a favourite dog that was put down years ago. "I had that one for six years. I did 852,000 miles on it, with two engine. The first motor did about 440,000 miles. It blew its head gasket a bit before that, but I didn't know it-I must have run it for 10,000 miles. I used
to get on the motorway and let it have some throttle and it would run well. It was only in town that it became obvious it was broke. "It just fell apart under me,' Stan sighs. I'd be going down the motorway and a hairline crack would appear in the fairing. I'd get home and lace it together with cable ties - Didn't want it to look too tatty! When I sold it for £1300 it had 53 cable ties holding the fairing together.

Frosty, you may want to print this article out and hang it in the garage next to your new toy.
 
NewTo700V said:
Basing job security solely off gear driven cam VFR engines would be severely ill advised. One of Honda's most reliable engines configurations.
Click to expand...

I wasn't necessarily referring only to reliability. The complexity of the many bits will scare off a lot of "shade tree" mechanics and they will rely on the pro's to fix it therein the job security for Macka!

:D

Mike
 
As Mike says/infers, complexity is good for business. As the person who would have to do the valve clearances for free, I would probably not own one.
If someone wants me to hang upside down and whistle Dixie @ $100/hour I will gladly do that.
As for the tappets/valve clearances on the NT, they were last done (by me of course) at 64,oookm. On Monday I rolled over 100,oookm.
They were adjusted by me at 24,oookm, minor adjusted by me at 36,oookm, checked at 48,oookm and checked at 64,oookm. The last two with no adj.
As an old school mechanic, who still has to do the modern high-tech stuff too, I have developed a well tested working philosophy over the past 50 years. That is: (with apologies to Donald- no not Trump, Rumsfeld) there are some things that we know need to be done and there are some things that we know don't need to be done. Oil changes are critical (need to be done-mine gets new oil every 3-4oookm), Honda valve clearances, when correctly set, do not change if the engine is not over-revved (don't need to be done-as scheduled). That is not to say that I won't do the tappets, just that I will do them next time I have the plastic off for something else.
There are other things that I could talk about too, such as batteries, but not now.

Macka
 
I too have abandoned Honda's recommendation on the valve clearance intervals. I checked them religiously for the first three intervals and then went to a 30K check. Even then, there was not much difference.

Now, as to hangin' upside down whistling Dixie...at $100/hour, that means that for $25 we could watch you do that for 15 minutes..... hmmmmm…… that would be worth watchin'...…. any other takers??? Send us the vid Macka, the check is in the mail!....

:ROFLMAO:

Mike
 
mikesim said:
Now, as to hangin' upside down whistling Dixie...at $100/hour, that means that for $25 we could watch you do that for 15 minutes..... hmmmmm…… that would be worth watchin'...…. any other takers??? Send us the vid Macka, the check is in the mail!....
Click to expand...

Be careful Mike this is a setup!:oops: Macka is in Oz so he's already hangin' upside down..... 🤔 ;)
 
Thanks for the article. What an interesting career. I understand that the NT650/NT700 was a favorite for couriers in Europe.

Macka. I was prepared to remove the four camshafts and deal with shims, micrometer measurements, and confusing old man math, but all of the valves were well within spec. I will never see that part of the engine again, knock on (touch) wood. My big apprehension on this project is the unconnected vacuum line, missed electrical connector, leak, or some other overlooked detail. I could never make a living doing this if I were paid by the job. :)
 
Yes, Frosty. Complexity makes it very easy to miss some small detail that WILL cause it to run like a bucket of S... when you get it back together. You then have to go back and start again to find that errant vacuum hose or connector. I have been there and done that! :mad:
I am not perfect like some claim to be, just very good. (y)

BTW, I have licked my lips and puckered up. Now to remember the tune!o_O

Macka
 
Help. Opinions solicited. Gasket cement?
I am preparing to reinstall the valve covers on the VFR. I bought some new gaskets including the 4 that seal the tunnels for the spark plugs. When I removed one of the old ones, it appeared to be glued into the channel. The SM does not reference any adhesive or sealant in this area.
I do have Hondabond 4, Hondabond HT, as well as Permatex Grey on hand.
Factory assembly adhesive? Perhaps to prevent the gasket from falling out during assembly?

Aft Cylinder Head/Cam Cover Interior with one old gasket removed.
Valve Cover Aft Interior.JPG

Plug well gasket groove with adhesive remaining.
Valve Cover Aft Plug Well Gasket.JPG

For clarity: Rear Cylinder bank to show mating surface.
Aft Cylinder Head.JPG
 
IIRC, Honda does not recommend any gasket sealant and I don't use it myself except a tiny dab of gasket shellac to hold a gasket in place if necessary. It just makes the job harder to clean next time.

Mike
 
I have used a dab of Permatex to hold similar seals in place during assembly. Just to hold it for the short time it is upside down.

Brad
 
The V4 engine is pretty much the same as on the ST... there's only 2 places the manual suggests to put some sealant and you can see some black residue from it. Looks like the VFR has 4 of those half circle slots.

So, if someone did a valve check they probably put adhesive on the one you're looking at to keep the gasket from falling off when putting the cover back on. On the ST1300, the outer gasket and the inner ones for the spark plugs are all connected by gasket material so it's not as big of an issue.

Aft Cylinder Head.JPG

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